Brooklyn College Moves Our Work
As per the Press Release listed in a post below, yesterday Brooklyn College removed our work from the War Memorial without our consent.
We were set to meet with Provost Roberta Matthews at 9am. As we were about to go to the meeting, we got calls from fellow students who were guarding the space saying that Brooklyn College trucks were there and had begun dismantling and taking out the artwork. We had to turn around and rush down there.
When the professors who are supporting us got to the Provost's door they were told the meeting was cancelled.
The PR for Brooklyn College has spun this as if we agreed to this and as if it was a benevolent gesture. Unfortunately some of the press has picked up on this and is sending out inaccurate information. We never agreed for them to move this work and were never given a chance to discuss anything with the college. We have agreed to nothing regarding this space they have proposed to us.
No one can describe how it feels to see the fruits of all of your labors taken down and dismantled in the span of hours.
posted by Plan C at 1:02 PM
39 Comments:
From the Numberer:
OK, now Ive lost it. I think you have seen from my other messages that i tend to be empathetic to the bureaucratic pressures people confront, especially and including the Brooklyn andministration and your faculty.
But the details you now provide about trucks coming at the same time as a cancelled meeting may be the worst example of mishandling an already difficult incident that I have ever heard of.
In fact, it is so blatantly unethical and dishonest and backhanded a way to handle this that I honestly cant believe it. In fact, Ill go farther: It is almost impossible for me to believe Presdient Kimmich would do this.
Where has he been and why has the Provost been out front? Is he on vacation? Travelling?
I guarantee one thing. If true, not only the art faculty but a large part of the entire Brooklyn faculty must be horrified.
There are Universities where a move this devious would subject the responsible administrator to a vote of no confidence.
I thought I had seen everything in higher education. But locks changed? Trucks unannounced? Art broekn down in the absence of the artist. An imprtant meeting cancelled? At the same time the trucks arrived.
Please believe me that I do not have an axe to grind wth any of the parties when I say:This is the stuff of dictatorships.
And if true, you students wpont have a thing to worry about. Your faculty will outdo you in anger and outrage.
I ask you this, students and faculty: Would this adminsitration have come unannounced and broken down a faculty art exhibit? I wonder.
My best guess...and I honestly dont know, is that president Kimmich is not currently on campus.
Dear God, faced with a number of places to make this better, the Brooklyn admin has made it worse at every opportunity. I shudder to think what's next.
A bonfire?
Of course not. But who thought trucks would come in such a stealthy manner?
Unfotunately, according to Faculty members who support us and know first hand of the underhanded doings of the administration, most of the other department chairs believe the shtick of the administration. That they are doing us a favor and supporting us. Which is clearly not the case.
They are goign to try and remedy this by speaking at a Faculty meeting today.
It is hard to go up against people with so much power. This situation is really frightening.
I have seen the Art work and it is not appropriate for Children and probably offensive to most people (Yes - Most people do not agree with the whole gay thing, They are just afraid to say so due to tactics of the gay agenda (i.e. - Your a homophobe, you discriminate, fear of losing your job etc.). If these so called “artists” want to show this crap, they cannot do it on the taxpayers dime if the majority of the taxpayers disagree with it. I guess they will just have to get jobs (Yes, actually work), rent a place and have a private showing.
Do you know where you work is right now? They didn't just take everything and not say, did they?
I believe the art work was destroyed.
STOP MAKING SUCH A BIG THING ABOUT THIS ! GET A LIFE !!!!!! BETTER YET - GET A JOB!
you might be interested to know anonymous, this work was paid for by US with OUR tuition, OUR labor, and OUR money for supplies. not YOU.
we PAY for this with our JOBS.
furthermore, the space was given to us for FREE. and not paid for by the college.
The SPACE was NOT given to you for free. It is maintained by Tax payer Dollars. NOTHING is FREE.
Why is this Gay Stuff so important to you people. Keep it to yourself. It is not a normal lifestyle.
Numberer:
Who is the Dean of Graduate Studies now? Has he or she offered any support or at least sat down with you?
Are they aware of how the reputation of an MFA program in endangered if it gets known nin the art education community as a place that pulls this sort of stuff?
Is there any organized faculty support for you?
Or if not support, at least outrage for Monday's antics with trucks and cancelled meetings?
By the way you anonymous idiot (I am talking about the closet gay who is threatend by a penis).... Students are taxpayers too. Who told you that the mayority of "taxpayers" that went to the show agree with you? You are allowed to be a public idiot too, thanks to the first ammendment!
Hey Idiot, It's Not the Majority of the people who go to the show, It's the majority of the people who pay for the show (All of NYC).
Troll, begone!
Can you detail exactly what you found objectionable or unsuitable about what you saw? Especially now since it looks like New Yorkers' ability to look and decide for ourselves has been taken out of our hands.
From what I saw, Penis's and gay sex is not appropriate for Public viewing. Especially not appropriate for children.
i find it very sad and very scary that many americans are so willing to give up the hard fought rights that we are guaranteed in the constitution and bill of rights just to argue a point.
Fellow Artists!
by Esther Hwang
Art communicates. It asks, no, demands us to receive and if we refuse to we are not letting art be art. A writer once said that poetry reinvents language, and I dare to generalize that art reinvents reality, and I don't try to deceive us that art beautifies reality, bearing all of life's cumbersome burdens. In fact, art sometimes even highlights the invisible burdens tucked away in the quiet periphery of our sight. Often, if not for art, they would remain invisible, never beckoning us to stray from the retreat into our coffins of comfort zones. Art is not always palatable. Sometimes, it shocks, it hurts, it annoys, and it offends, but that's okay. After all, truth is not always presented in matching colors. In fact, it seldom is.
Julius Spiegel, Commissioner of the Parks Department, felt that your artwork was not "appropriate for families" because the exhibition featured a penis sculpture, a caged rat and a "sexually charged video." The city wants to further censor any art "that includes material that is religious, political or sexual in nature." Do families not have religious beliefs? Do families not live under a government? Do families not exist because of the penis?
If people live life as social, spiritual, psychological, and sexual creatures, then the art they produce will reflect and recreate these elements. I wonder what we would have lost if censorship prevailed in history, if Macchiavelli didn't write his brilliant political machinations; if Shakespeare didn't explore the human desire of power; if Picasso never painted his unique depiction of prostitutes; if Donatello didn't create the erotic, kinky, and homosexually charged sculpture of David of the Bible (what do you know, it's religious, political, and sexual); if Michaelangelo never sculpted the Pieta, in which the virgin Mary's face looks as though she is having an orgasm; if Bach never composed his tribute to God in his beautiful Mass in b minor; if Allen Ginsberg, a distinguised professor of English at Brooklyn College, never wrote "Howl."
If censorship is the direction in which we're heading, we might as well strip the walls of the Metropolitan Museum of Art and hang empty frames of silence; we might as well rape the halls of Lincoln Center and echo cacophonous symphonies of nothingness. To me, this is as absurd as your artwork being censored. We from the English Major's Counseling Office encourage you to let your art speak even more loudly, to look at Donatello's David and preach on. We realize that art does not mask but reveals. We realize that as human beings, we wake up in the morning and try to identify the phallic symbol in our dreams; we have sex after a candlelit dinner; we have brothers fighting in Iraq; we have fathers who died on 9/11; we have mothers who are worried; we pray.
I close with an invitation to Julius Spiegel, a family man no doubt, to take a good look in the mirror before the next time he hops in the shower and see what greets him hanging (or not hanging) between his legs. Surprise!
It says the "Students" are going to sue the city. More Tax payer dollars wasted. Why do I have to pay for this????
The Reason the 1950's were the greatest is becuase we had rules. It seems people today want no rules. Do what ever they want. That does not work. Stop whining.
No objection to the woman?
your gonna pay for it and like it...TAXPAYER!!!!
HAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...........................................................................
The Numberer:
1) I know that being in the middle of this must be unpleasant. But there is way to see all these comments that is absolutely fascinating. This is truly THE script for an art war. All the trolls are coming in perfectly on cue about the gay agenda being forced down their throats. I dont know about you but I hadn't heard the term gay agenda for a long time.
What I hope will happen now is the on cue appearance of some of the more literate homophobes. Thy're not as fun to watch on stage as the Einsteins who have left comments now, because they will clothe their homophobia in subtle, nuanced language, even trying to make it look like tolerance.
They will play a role not unlike your adminstration who, when they appeared in the first act, tried to clothe their panic and lack of support as standing up for your rights. In other words, now you are heariunf from Al Bundy.
But in about three pages of script from now, watch at stage right for the entrance of the homophobes and reactiuonaroes who seem seem like they have brains, like the editorial writer of The Sun.
2) That penis really has the public enthralled, doesn't it? Funny, half of us have them. All of us are here because of them. And yet you show one and you're up shit's creek. And god forbid you imply that one man's penis might touch another.
3) There is an irony of all these actors getting so hot and bothered about a penis. (Just checked, mine is still there, whew, i was afraid they might have taken it away in the truck on Monday.) Them irony is that this whole struggle, from Speigel's lock changing to the stealthy trucks absolutely proves the centrality of testosterone in this world. Rather than thinking about free expression or fairness or transparency, all this maneuvering looks suspiciously like a lot of people fighting to see whose dick (I mean penis) is bigger.
4) I dont want to spolit the whole plot, but I should warn ytou about a long monolkogue that will come in the 3rd or 4th act. You might want to get some popcorn or go to the bathroom.
The monologue is the mandatory summing up statement from the adminsitartion/Provost in which he/she will try to heal the wounds, make nice, bring everyone together, admit a few missteps, say that we have to move ahead together and yada yada yada.
Be careful. What they will reaslly want when they say "its time get past this" or "move on" or whatever words they choose, is that their sad negligence of your rights during this whole ugly episode be forgotten. Remember, "moving on" might serve their interests but not those who feel victimized by the "Trucks of Monday."
5) What? Wait a minute. Soemone just handed me a copy of the letter that is to come from the admninistration this week or next. I guess I should share it.
Faculty, Staff, and Students:
These have been a difficult few days for a community that historically has prided itself on the basic principles of free expression. People on all sides -- city officals, adminsitaroprs, students, and others -- have acted with passion and in good faith to stand upo for,prinvciples that they feel are important. And most of all, a group of some of New York City's most promising yioung artists -- our students -- have found themselves in the midst of a maelstrom of competing claims and public criticism.
talented creatuve artists who will be at the
The Numberer:
1) I know that being in the middle of this must be unpleasant. But there is way to see all these comments that is absolutely fascinating. This is truly THE script for an art war. All the trolls are coming in perfectly on cue about the gay agenda being forced down their throats. I dont know about you but I hadn't heard the term gay agenda for a long time.
What I hope will happen now is the on cue appearance of some of the more literate homophobes. Thy're not as fun to watch on stage as the Einsteins who have left comments now, because they will clothe their homophobia in subtle, nuanced language, even trying to make it look like tolerance.
They will play a role not unlike your adminstration who, when they appeared in the first act, tried to clothe their panic and lack of support as standing up for your rights. In other words, now you are heariunf from Al Bundy.
But in about three pages of script from now, watch at stage right for the entrance of the homophobes and reactiuonaroes who seem seem like they have brains, like the editorial writer of The Sun.
2) That penis really has the public enthralled, doesn't it? Funny, half of us have them. All of us are here because of them. And yet you show one and you're up shit's creek. And god forbid you imply that one man's penis might touch another.
3) There is an irony of all these actors getting so hot and bothered about a penis. (Just checked, mine is still there, whew, i was afraid they might have taken it away in the truck on Monday.) Them irony is that this whole struggle, from Speigel's lock changing to the stealthy trucks absolutely proves the centrality of testosterone in this world. Rather than thinking about free expression or fairness or transparency, all this maneuvering looks suspiciously like a lot of people fighting to see whose dick (I mean penis) is bigger.
4) I dont want to spolit the whole plot, but I should warn ytou about a long monolkogue that will come in the 3rd or 4th act. You might want to get some popcorn or go to the bathroom.
The monologue is the mandatory summing up statement from the adminsitartion/Provost in which he/she will try to heal the wounds, make nice, bring everyone together, admit a few missteps, say that we have to move ahead together and yada yada yada.
Be careful. What they will reaslly want when they say "its time get past this" or "move on" or whatever words they choose, is that their sad negligence of your rights during this whole ugly episode be forgotten. Remember, "moving on" might serve their interests but not those who feel victimized by the "Trucks of Monday."
5) What? Wait a minute. Soemone just handed me a copy of the letter that is to come from the admninistration this week or next. I guess I should share it.
Faculty, Staff, and Students:
These have been a difficult few days for a community that historically has prided itself on the basic principles of free expression. People on all sides -- city officals, adminsitaroprs, students, and others -- have acted with passion and in good faith to stand upo for,prinvciples that they feel are important. And most of all, a group of some of New York City's most promising yioung artists -- our students -- have found themselves in the midst of a maelstrom of competing claims and public criticism.
talented creatuve artists who will be at the
The Numberer:
1) I know that being in the middle of this must be unpleasant. But there is way to see all these comments that is absolutely fascinating. This is truly THE script for an art war. All the trolls are coming in perfectly on cue about the gay agenda being forced down their throats. I dont know about you but I hadn't heard the term gay agenda for a long time.
What I hope will happen now is the on cue appearance of some of the more literate homophobes. Thy're not as fun to watch on stage as the Einsteins who have left comments now, because they will clothe their homophobia in subtle, nuanced language, even trying to make it look like tolerance.
They will play a role not unlike your adminstration who, when they appeared in the first act, tried to clothe their panic and lack of support as standing up for your rights. In other words, now you are heariunf from Al Bundy.
But in about three pages of script from now, watch at stage right for the entrance of the homophobes and reactiuonaroes who seem seem like they have brains, like the editorial writer of The Sun.
2) That penis really has the public enthralled, doesn't it? Funny, half of us have them. All of us are here because of them. And yet you show one and you're up shit's creek. And god forbid you imply that one man's penis might touch another.
3) There is an irony of all these actors getting so hot and bothered about a penis. (Just checked, mine is still there, whew, i was afraid they might have taken it away in the truck on Monday.) Them irony is that this whole struggle, from Speigel's lock changing to the stealthy trucks absolutely proves the centrality of testosterone in this world. Rather than thinking about free expression or fairness or transparency, all this maneuvering looks suspiciously like a lot of people fighting to see whose dick (I mean penis) is bigger.
4) I dont want to spolit the whole plot, but I should warn ytou about a long monolkogue that will come in the 3rd or 4th act. You might want to get some popcorn or go to the bathroom.
The monologue is the mandatory summing up statement from the adminsitartion/Provost in which he/she will try to heal the wounds, make nice, bring everyone together, admit a few missteps, say that we have to move ahead together and yada yada yada.
Be careful. What they will reaslly want when they say "its time get past this" or "move on" or whatever words they choose, is that their sad negligence of your rights during this whole ugly episode be forgotten. Remember, "moving on" might serve their interests but not those who feel victimized by the "Trucks of Monday."
5) What? Wait a minute. Soemone just handed me a copy of the letter that is to come from the admninistration this week or next. I guess I should share it.
Faculty, Staff, and Students:
These have been a difficult few days for a community that historically has prided itself on the basic principles of free expression. People on all sides -- city officals, adminsitaroprs, students, and others -- have acted with passion and in good faith to stand upo for,prinvciples that they feel are important. And most of all, a group of some of New York City's most promising yioung artists -- our students -- have found themselves in the midst of a maelstrom of competing claims and public criticism.
talented creatuve artists who will be at the
The Numberer:
1) I know that being in the middle of this must be unpleasant. But there is way to see all these comments that is absolutely fascinating. This is truly THE script for an art war. All the trolls are coming in perfectly on cue about the gay agenda being forced down their throats. I dont know about you but I hadn't heard the term gay agenda for a long time.
What I hope will happen now is the on cue appearance of some of the more literate homophobes. Thy're not as fun to watch on stage as the Einsteins who have left comments now, because they will clothe their homophobia in subtle, nuanced language, even trying to make it look like tolerance.
They will play a role not unlike your adminstration who, when they appeared in the first act, tried to clothe their panic and lack of support as standing up for your rights. In other words, now you are heariunf from Al Bundy.
But in about three pages of script from now, watch at stage right for the entrance of the homophobes and reactiuonaroes who seem seem like they have brains, like the editorial writer of The Sun.
2) That penis really has the public enthralled, doesn't it? Funny, half of us have them. All of us are here because of them. And yet you show one and you're up shit's creek. And god forbid you imply that one man's penis might touch another.
3) There is an irony of all these actors getting so hot and bothered about a penis. (Just checked, mine is still there, whew, i was afraid they might have taken it away in the truck on Monday.) Them irony is that this whole struggle, from Speigel's lock changing to the stealthy trucks absolutely proves the centrality of testosterone in this world. Rather than thinking about free expression or fairness or transparency, all this maneuvering looks suspiciously like a lot of people fighting to see whose dick (I mean penis) is bigger.
4) I dont want to spolit the whole plot, but I should warn ytou about a long monolkogue that will come in the 3rd or 4th act. You might want to get some popcorn or go to the bathroom.
The monologue is the mandatory summing up statement from the adminsitartion/Provost in which he/she will try to heal the wounds, make nice, bring everyone together, admit a few missteps, say that we have to move ahead together and yada yada yada.
Be careful. What they will reaslly want when they say "its time get past this" or "move on" or whatever words they choose, is that their sad negligence of your rights during this whole ugly episode be forgotten. Remember, "moving on" might serve their interests but not those who feel victimized by the "Trucks of Monday."
5) What? Wait a minute. Soemone just handed me a copy of the letter that is to come from the admninistration this week or next. I guess I should share it.
Faculty, Staff, and Students:
These have been a difficult few days for a community that historically has prided itself on the basic principles of free expression. People on all sides -- city officals, adminsitaroprs, students, and others -- have acted with passion and in good faith to stand upo for,prinvciples that they feel are important. And most of all, a group of some of New York City's most promising yioung artists -- our students -- have found themselves in the midst of a maelstrom of competing claims and public criticism.
talented creatuve artists who will be at the
The Numberer:
1) I know that being in the middle of this must be unpleasant. But there is way to see all these comments that is absolutely fascinating. This is truly THE script for an art war. All the trolls are coming in perfectly on cue about the gay agenda being forced down their throats. I dont know about you but I hadn't heard the term gay agenda for a long time.
What I hope will happen now is the on cue appearance of some of the more literate homophobes. Thy're not as fun to watch on stage as the Einsteins who have left comments now, because they will clothe their homophobia in subtle, nuanced language, even trying to make it look like tolerance.
They will play a role not unlike your adminstration who, when they appeared in the first act, tried to clothe their panic and lack of support as standing up for your rights. In other words, now you are heariunf from Al Bundy.
But in about three pages of script from now, watch at stage right for the entrance of the homophobes and reactiuonaroes who seem seem like they have brains, like the editorial writer of The Sun.
2) That penis really has the public enthralled, doesn't it? Funny, half of us have them. All of us are here because of them. And yet you show one and you're up shit's creek. And god forbid you imply that one man's penis might touch another.
3) There is an irony of all these actors getting so hot and bothered about a penis. (Just checked, mine is still there, whew, i was afraid they might have taken it away in the truck on Monday.) Them irony is that this whole struggle, from Speigel's lock changing to the stealthy trucks absolutely proves the centrality of testosterone in this world. Rather than thinking about free expression or fairness or transparency, all this maneuvering looks suspiciously like a lot of people fighting to see whose dick (I mean penis) is bigger.
4) I dont want to spolit the whole plot, but I should warn ytou about a long monolkogue that will come in the 3rd or 4th act. You might want to get some popcorn or go to the bathroom.
The monologue is the mandatory summing up statement from the adminsitartion/Provost in which he/she will try to heal the wounds, make nice, bring everyone together, admit a few missteps, say that we have to move ahead together and yada yada yada.
Be careful. What they will reaslly want when they say "its time get past this" or "move on" or whatever words they choose, is that their sad negligence of your rights during this whole ugly episode be forgotten. Remember, "moving on" might serve their interests but not those who feel victimized by the "Trucks of Monday."
5) What? Wait a minute. Soemone just handed me a copy of the letter that is to come from the admninistration this week or next. I guess I should share it.
Faculty, Staff, and Students:
These have been a difficult few days for a community that historically has prided itself on the basic principles of free expression. People on all sides -- city officals, adminsitaroprs, students, and others -- have acted with passion and in good faith to stand upo for,prinvciples that they feel are important. And most of all, a group of some of New York City's most promising yioung artists -- our students -- have found themselves in the midst of a maelstrom of competing claims and public criticism.
talented creatuve artists who will be at the
Numberer Continues:
.....Free expression is at the core of what we do as a University. And we will never compromise fundamentally on that principle.
Yet I cannot deny that in this case we faced a dillema, a gut wrenching and difficult one. Because of a regrettable misunderstanding with the Parks Department about what could or could not be done at the War Memorial, we were confronted with a painful choice.
Good people who do not believe in censorship felt sincerely that sexually explicit material did not belong in a memorial visited by families who have lost children in war. I should add that this sadly includes families of CUNY students who have made the ultimate sacrifice.
So while we argued focrefully and vigorously about the place of art in society and the importance of free expression, in this case we quite frankly chose to honor the sentiments of those whose losses and sacrifices are almost unspeakably painful.
Would we have preferred to stay? Yes. Are we prepared to stay vigilant about free epxression? Yes? Will we fight when we have to?. No question about it.
But while we can understand your disappointment, we simply didn't think this was the case on which we should make a stand. The feelings of too many decent people were at stake and -- this time -- we chose to respect those.
To those who view our decision in this case harshly, I can sympathize. But I ask only one favor. In the future, watch our actions. Our vigilant defense of free expression will be unstinting. Our support of our students and faculty unyielding. And our love of community and academy and society will never waver.
I cant tell you how much I appreciate all of you who have listened and suported and understood the difficult controversy we have weathered and who, whether you agree or not, have expressed your understanding of our decision this time to lean in the direction of those who have had to suffer the pain of losing a family member in the armed services.
This isn't the last time we will face a dillema like this, but I will never forget the support and solidarity you have shown as we have faced this together, united in our support for Brooklyn College..
Yada. Yada. Yada.
When this speech comes, and when they try to pull out every well-worn flack technique to get you in line, to get your sympathy, to get you to forget how they deserted you, PLUG YOUR EARS.
The kind of BS they will throw your way will be done with skill. But it will be no less phony.
They screwed you! And I, as you can see, can't seem to stop feeling outrage at how shabbily you were treated.
If you feel it is not appropriate for children, then don't bring your children along. You have the freedom to enter the space as well as leave it.
COULD YOU HOMOPHOBIC BIGOTS STOP SCAPEGOATING GAY PEOPLE!!! The penis was made by a straight white male who is married and has a kid. All you can do is scream gay gay gay and get every homophobe reading this stoked. Are you all right wing morons taking a page form the Karl Rove playbook?????? Congratulations. You are exactly the kind of morons who couldn't wait to turn in Jews in Germany.
will you marry me?
xo
to taxpayer:
Do you like to get f@#%ed with a finger up your ass? maybe two? Isn't it great?!
Hey Art Shirer;
You seem to be a very tough guy (NOT!). We need to get back to a 50's lifestyle. The 60's completely ruined this country. 1. Woman's rights - Mothers are no longer raising there kids. 2. Sexual Revolution - 1 out 3 people under 21 have a STD. 3. Gay Rights - Phedophiles are having a field day. Any if you disagree with the movement, you are a homophobe. 4. Civil rights movement - This completely when to far. It was needed but it has now went too far, affirm action has cheated people who really deserve the job or College etc.
So Art - People like you (A socialist with no job or a crappy one) is runing this country. Why don't all of you move to Europe, Canada or best of all Venezuela
gay sex was NOT DEPICTED!!!
The penis in art has a long history from prehistoric times through Michaelangelo to Louise Bourgeois.
The straight man who made this piece, in which the penis in question is actually covered with fabric, is in very good company.
If IMAGINING A PENIS and IMAGINING GAY SEX is now offensive to the general public, what isn't? What will we do with the entire population, since everyone evidently thinks about both? Particularly homophobes.
to numberer
please make these postings shorter. you are putting us to sleep!
to anon 8:18
1. i pray to god you don't have a daughter.
2. 1 in 3 people under 21 have stds? where are you getting these stats exactly? maybe highschools should stop teaching abstinence in federally funded programs and be handing out condoms instead. these are your tax dollars at work.
3. the overwhelming majority of pedophiles are straight men who prey on girls. unless you are talking about catholic priests of course. do you have something to say to the catholics in your audience? does this make all catholics pedophiles ?
p.s. anon 8:18
you are a fool.
You are wrong about the Pedophile Stats - 92 % of Sex crimes against Children Are Male adults against under age males. The Stat for STD are from the CDC
where is the ped stats from?
so hand out condoms. period.
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